Discover how you can green your life by building a knowledge base of current sustainable and eco-savvy trends. This series will delve into hot topics, current standards and practices, ways to design better spaces and specify materials that benefit not only us, as consumers, but the world as a whole. Members of CaraGreen, a sustainable materials distributor, and other industry leaders weigh in throughout the series. This is Build Green Live Green.
This episode will teach you ways to green your office space, detailing ways that you can live a more sustainable life in the environment you find yourself in. We are here today with Jessica McNaughton and Kim Loftis of CaraGreen, our show's producer and sustainability think-tank.
JESSICA: Hi this is Jessica.
KIM: And this is Kim.
JESSICA: We're here with Build Green Live Green and today's topic is the Top 5 Ways to go Green. I don't think we're going to stop at five, there’s too many. We’ll call it the Top 5 Ways to Build Green, but we'll cover as many as we can quickly.
KIM: Sounds good.
JESSICA: Alright, so the word “green” went out five years ago, maybe. But “going green” is still something that people can relate to. The new word is “sustainability,” “sustainable.” So, what does it really mean to be sustainable? The way I like to think of it is it's respecting the environment in a way that's not damaging, right? It’s something that can continue to go on without dying or causing harm. And why do we need to do it? I think it's pretty clear if you look at our other podcasts, we've covered biophilic design, which is about people, we’ve covered the recycling ban in China, which is causing so much to go into our landfills and we're being really faced with a lot of challenges at the climate level and we need to come up with a way to design and build that gives back. So our last podcast was on the Living Building Challenge and that's buildings that give back.
KIM: Very utopian idea, but exciting topic.
JESSICA: Right, but where we need to get to. But that's a great ideal for buildings, but what can we do as individuals to start incorporating these practices today?
KIM: Yeah. So, it’s really big issue, but we're going to talk about it in a way that is very achievable for anyone.
JESSICA: Yeah, I mean, and the nice thing too is these are things that you can do at home, you can do at work. I am proud to be the parent of Sebastian, who won the Ecofriendly Award in second grade. Standing up in the cafeteria and preaching about getting recycling bins in the cafeteria, because the kids were throwing away everything. So, you know, those are things that- and that's where it needs to start, with us as individuals, right, and it needs to work down to our children and up to the Sandy's. I mean Sandy in our office, she goes to Chick-fil-A every day.
KIM: But she probably uses her reusable straw more than I do.
JESSICA: I know.
KIM: She maybe gets more sodas than I do, too.
JESSICA: But we’ve transitioned her.
KIM: Yes, she does a really great job and she gets really excited about it. So, I think that these are things that people can do and also feel really good about.
JESSICA: Okay, so let's start with home. You know I think we can talk about some of the best practices. But, really, I think being with CaraGreen and CaraGreen being a sustainable products company, we sort of have to walk the talk. So, there's a lot of things that we're going to be doing individually everywhere that we can share with our listeners and so our listeners know if you want to reference a blog post we wrote on this subject, it's at www.caragreen.com/blog.
KIM: So, one of the things that I always say to people is “reduce” is the first word of “reduce, reuse, recycle” and that's such a common phrase and I think a lot of people say the most sustainable or green or eco-friendly thing that they do is recycle. But I like to push people to reduce first and think about that first word and not only think about that, but also just think first. Do you need to put one item in a plastic bag when you walk out of the convenience store or the grocery store? No, you definitely don't. So, I think that it's also a little bit about feeling like you might be different. Like telling somebody that you don't want a bag and they say, “Really? Are you sure? You really don't want a bag?” I feel like that happens to me all the time. So, again, so reducing your waste first, so thinking about it as you're coming across these choices and options and thinking about how you can reduce your waste and we'll talk about some other ideas for reducing waste too.
JESSICA: Yeah, that was a good example, because I remember when I went to get an iced coffee in that cafe across from the office and I said I don't want a straw and the guy behind the counter said, “well, how are you going to drink it?” And I said, “out of the cup,” and he looked at me like I was crazy and I just, I mean it was funny yeah that people just don't think that, they just expect it. Another great example is takeout food. So, when you order takeout food one of the nice things I've seen lately on GrubHub and some of those, DoorDash, some of those apps, they let you click a button that says, “would you like to minimize the amount of packaging?”
KIM: Oh, that's great.
JESSICA: Yeah, so you can actually choose, you know, less packaging. I don't want 400 packets of sweet and sour sauce or whatever that yellow stuff is you get from the Chinese place. And I've got a huge thing of Kikkoman’s in my refrigerator, I don't need soy sauce packets either, so you can keep them.
KIM: Yeah, and not only is that good for the consumer, but it's good for that business too. I mean those things cost them money. So, if they're giving out less, they're saving more money, so that's a great thing.
JESSICA: Yeah, and I, actually a bunch of my friends were just down in Mexico when they sent me these photos from this resort they were at that had banned straws and I, first, thought it was funny that they knew to send that to me. I thought it was great that a resort in Mexico was taking that step. I think that's really good to see. The other thing that I do is- I'm busy I got three kids right, I record podcasts, but I like to do the order at the grocery store ahead of time. It does a couple of things. One- it saves me time. But two- it means I don't walk by chocolate cupcakes and put them in the cart. I just order what I need.
KIM: Or your kids cry until they get one.
JESSICA: Yeah exactly. So, I just order what I need, but it saves me time. But the other thing is I write on the notes for the shopper, “please do not put my produce in individual bags.”
KIM: Oh. They would put like one apple in one and-
JESSICA: -one apple in a bag, yeah. So, I say, well I specify I only want paper bags and I ask them to leave any big items loose. So big bottles of juice, things like that just leave them loose. I don't need them in there. So I specified that and they've started to slowly learn. But that's a small step, but that's reduced. That’s what reduce is.
KIM: I actually noticed the other day, Trader Joe's has biodegradable plastic bags for their fruits and vegetables. Which is really cool. But you can also get reusable bags, so I have like the little cotton knit bags and they have like a drawstring at the top and I use those or usually I don’t even use any.
JESSICA: Those are great for potatoes and onions too, keep them separate. Because they'll kill each other if they're in the same space. Now you know. Yeah, so, you know, plasticware is a big one, if you're getting takeout food or you're at a restaurant or you're grabbing something quick to go, if you're going home, you don't need a fork. But if you do end up with a fork or knife, I just put mine in the drawer and then when my kids take their lunch to school, they take the fork and knife with them. And guess what? They bring it back.
KIM: Because they know.
JESSICA: Yes. Because the next step after reduce is reuse. So, if you don't say no to the plastic fork and it does come home, reuse it. There’s nothing wrong with it.
KIM: Absolutely, they're really great to have in the car too.
JESSICA: Yeah, absolutely. Another thing is, before you buy something look how much packaging it has. I mean I'm the biggest user of Amazon, I admit it, but I can't believe it when I order a set of AA batteries and it comes in a box that I could fit a golf club in. You know, I don't understand. What I do do, and you can see downstairs there's like a graveyard of boxes that I'm going to be bringing into the office for us to send out samples of our materials, but, you know, I reuse all that stuff that comes in. When you're in Target and you see the amount of packaging; A, you're probably going to lacerate your finger trying to open up a kid's toy and B, you know all of it is going to get thrown out. So it's just a lot of packaging, a lot of excess packaging.
KIM: There is a lot of that out there. So, yeah, looking at those things and thinking of alternatives or even shopping at stores that are more likely to have alternatives. There’s a grocery store that's really close to my house, which I will leave unnamed, that has a very very small organic food section and their peppers are literally wrapped in plastic. Like why do I want an organic pepper that's been sitting on a truck, getting hot and cold in plastic wrap? Like, it just doesn't make any sense. So, thinking about that on a larger scale too.
JESSICA: Yeah, one of the hot buttons for me is when you go to a kid’s party, this drives me crazy. A, I don't need 14 Hello Kitty t-shirts or whatever the gifts are- you know, its plastic gifts. There's got to be a better way to be able to have a party for a child without, you know, have them donate to a cause or have them do some sort of community or social exercise, right. You know you end up with a lot of toys that they don't need. It’s hard enough hosting the party. But when I go to another kid's party and I'm leaving, and they give me a bag full of- there's no other word for it, just shit. It’s a stamp that stamps twice and then dies. It’s a yo-yo that should be called a yo, because it yo’s once and never works again. A bunch of erasers that smell like strawberries, but don't actually erase anything.
KIM: Oh yeah, talk about VOCs.
JESSICA: I mean it's just its all cheap junk made from China and I would rather not have it.
KIM: For sure. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah, there's a lot of things that go into kids’ parties that could be really changed. Actually, my sister recently had a birthday party for my niece and she made a gift list on Amazon and she felt kind of weird doing that, because she's basically telling people what to get for her kid, but she also didn't get a bunch of stuff that she, number one, didn't want, number two, was going to break eventually and number three, was just going to sit in their house and never get used. So, it actually was a very smart choice and then when it comes to food for kids’ parties, or for anyone's parties, I think you can go back to that same packaging thing that you already talked about and really limit that.
JESSICA: Yeah, so for our listeners I think that the takeaway here is, for the kids’ parties, call ahead and find out what might be wanted or think about a gift card. Because, you know, gift cards can be aggregated and used for, you know, whatever the child actually wants or needs that when you determine that they do. Sebastian’s room in our house has a Lego table. Now Legos are the biggest bane known to parents. A, step on one, B, try to pick them up. They come in all sizes. There are no instructions left to build anything. I don't know how to build one of those things. I can sort of maybe replicate like a freight ocean craft or something, because it's flat and it's a rectangle. But Legos are made with a chemical called ABS, let me say it acrylonitrile butadiene styrene. Can you tell I was reading that? Yeah, they're just now starting to make Legos with a sugar cane-based plastic. It’s only a few of them and obviously color, and stuff, is going to be a big thing, cost will be a big thing. Because I'm sure that you know Legos are made pretty cost-effectively since...
KIM: I'm sure they are.
JESSICA: There's so many out there. I mean, why I can’t just buy the instruction manual without getting the Legos? I have enough Legos here I could build anything.
KIM: Right that's a good idea. Side business.
JESSICA: Yeah, there you go. Because I have a lot of extra time.
KIM: Okay, great, so just some other things that you can think about that can be reusable items that you might not normally think about, we already talked about plastic where you can even talk about using plastic plates. Jessica, I know you do that a lot with the parties that you have. Ziploc bags.
JESSICA: You make it sound like I have a lot of parties.
KIM: You do have a lot of parties. Ziploc bags, you can actually- a lot of them if they're, like, the thick freezer bags, you can put them in your dishwasher to wash them. Because they're actually really annoying to wash by hand, but it's totally worth it. So that's something you can do.
JESSICA: Yeah, but hot water and soap will get anything out of the inside of those Ziploc bags. Unless I put raw meat in a Ziploc, I reuse it. ‘Cause I love cheese. I love cheese. It happens to go really nice with the wine.
KIM: But which one do you love more?
JESSICA: Wine. There’s other things you can eat with wine. It’s just crackers, plain. But like cheese I always use like Ziplocs for, you know, cheese, like you cut. I don't know why they designed it that way- they put the plastic on it. There’s no way to put it back. Yeah, I reuse Ziplocs for that all the time and it's, just the amount that must get thrown away at schools. I use those compartments, that's a good thing to do. If you have children and you're sending lunch in everyday, Amazon has these great, this line called Basics, which has those food compartments, those little storage trays. A sandwich fits in here, some fruit, and a vegetable. Put the lid on, I have about 12 of them that, you know, we use every day. But I'm not using any plastic bags. They just go in the lunchbox and they come back every day. But that's a great way to cut down-
KIM: Oh, you are talking about like the little sandwich baggies for...
JESSICA: Yeah, everyone else, I see everyone else pull out this lunchbox and it's got apple slices in a Ziploc bag and it's got crackers in a Ziploc bag.
KIM: There's no way those things are getting saved.
JESSICA: Yeah, that's another thing. If you have kids, you don't have to buy the individual packs of Cheetos, Lay's, Rold Gold, whatever your kids are eating, Goldfish. Buy the big box and put it in these little compartments. You know it just saves on a lot of packaging and I think a lot of people don't recognize what's recyclable. You know just look at your town or your city and what they accept and start looking for that number on the bottom of things. I catch my husband throwing egg containers in the garbage. I said, “what are you doing?” “You can't recycle that.” “Is there a number on the bottom?” “Yes.” “Then put it in recycle.”
KIM: Right, yeah, so being conscious of that. Bags, that's an easy one and a big one that a lot of people do. Keep them in your car if you can't remember to put your bags and take them for the grocery store. Napkins, is a really big one. So, a lot of people use paper towels or paper napkins for their meals. But cloth is a great option there, just reuse them over and over again and then paper towels, there's actually some paper towel alternatives out there, where it's actually a cloth and it comes on a roll that looks just like a paper towel roll. So, that's an interesting idea and there's some really great products out there too. I feel like the name of the brand might be Seedling, that is a non-tree-based paper towel, cleanex, toilet paper options. So there's some great alternatives out there too.
JESSICA: Yeah, I think we looked at that for the office. You know what I find with napkins and paper towels is that we've gotten so used to them that we don't realize when we could be using something else. I rarely use paper towels. I have cloths that I use to wipe stuff up and I rinse it off and use it again. It’s a much better way to do it than just relying on paper towels to clean up spills. But, you know, you could just be using a cloth instead. Rinse it off, that's a better choice. So recycling is something that's a hot button for me. A lot of people, like I said, don't recognize it. It’s not hard to look up and see what your town collects. I'm very lucky to live in Cary where you can recycle everything that has a number on the bottom. And look at your plastics. There are bread bags, hot dog buns, hamburger bun bags that have the recycled plastic number on the bottom. All of those need to go to the grocery store. Our grocery store accepts plastic, so the grocery bags that are plastic, so I'll take one of the bags and I'll start filling it up. In fact, at Costco I buy those big things of like toilet paper and they're actually recyclable. The outside, all that huge plastic is recyclable. So I will fill that up and I'll have this giant thing that looks like the Michelin Man. I'll take it to Harris Teeter grocery store and stuff it in the bin. But, yeah, look for those numbers on your plastics. You may think that it's a bread bag, there's no way I can bring this to the grocery store, but you can and just start collecting that and the next time you go to the grocery store, bring all those loose plastics with you.
KIM: One of the easiest materials to recycle is aluminum.
JESSICA: Metal in general, yeah.
KIM: Yeah, because it can be recycled over and over and over again. It uses less energy to recycle it and turn it into something new than it does to use the raw material, so, that's a great benefit as well. I am obsessed with kombucha and my favorite brand comes in a glass bottle. But I've been trying this other brand more recently because it comes in aluminum cans, and I know that it's easier to recycle. So I'm trying to you know make that switch at least when I can.
JESSICA: They're probably going to call you going to be like, “Kim! What happened? You were our only customer!”
KIM: What I really need to do is go back to the first thing that I mentioned and reduce, and I need to start making my kombucha at home again.
JESSICA: You used to. I can't imagine what that smells like.
KIM: Oh, it smells good. Smells like kombucha.
JESSICA: Well kombucha has alcohol in it.
KIM: Yeah, tiny, tiny bit.
JESSICA: Yes, so again, a lot of these ideas are on our website at www.caragreen.com/blog in the “Top 10 Ways to Green Your Life” blog. So, you can go back and look at that. And recycling is also something that we're very adamant about at work. Our facility doesn't provide a recycling bin, but we have a huge box that we fill up, and Ned, our warehouse manager, takes it every day or not every day but he takes it at the end of the week and has it recycled. So maybe you have to do a little bit more as an individual. But it's worth it. One of the other things to note with recycling is you have to clean out containers before you recycle them. So, you can't take two scoops out of a natural peanut butter jar and be like, “ew, this stuff is disgusting” and then throw the whole jar in the recycling. Because contamination levels are what's causing China to no longer accept our recycling and if you want more information, we did a podcast on the China recycling ban and how it's impacting us here. They are restricting the materials they will take, because the contamination levels are too high. In fact, of every bale of recycling, 25% are sent to landfill, because the contamination level is so high.
KIM: Yeah, and that is going to make a lot of people that do recycle upset to know that fact. So, be sure that you are recycling properly, cleaning out your containers and, like you mentioned about the plastic bags, not only should you recycle if you can recycle, don't recycle something or put something in your recycling bin if you don't know. Because that is also a form of contamination.
JESSICA: Yea, it’s as bad. It contaminates more than just your recycling bin.
JESSICA: It goes upstream and contaminates the whole load of recycling.
KIM: So, another one is compost. We both do this at home which is really a great thing to do at home. It’s something that you can do in your offices as well. But this is a great thing, because it's keeping a lot of stuff out of the landfill it makes your trash a lot less stinky.
JESSICA: It does. We have so little trash now in my house.
KIM: We are in an apartment right now, because our house is being renovated, so we can't compost, and our trash is so much different now. Because we put all our food scraps in there and I kind of hate that we can't do it right now. But it's making me appreciate it so much more. But compost, if you're, you know, kind of new to that, it's basically taking all your food scraps except for meat and bones and putting those in a container and putting them outside and combining them with your yard waste and it basically turns into dirt.
JESSICA: So, and it's easier than it sounds. Because when I thought about this I have a small backyard and I live in a residential neighborhood and my husband wanted to start composting. So he just took a regular trash bucket and he takes our compost out and puts it in there. All I have to do is, I have a ceramic container that sits by my sink and it has biodegradable bags that I throw all the food scraps in. It has a charcoal lid that keeps all the smells in, you never smell it. You don't get fruit flies or anything. These containers are set up specifically for this. So, composting is a lot easier, or you can get a service like Compost Now. So if any of our listeners want to compost, you can have a service come to your home for a set amount per month and they will take your compost away. Which is another great option and again, it really helps mitigate the garbage and the smells, which I find amazing.
KIM: Honestly that's what I should do for the apartment, I should just call Compost Now and get them to come pick up our stuff. It’ll make me feel better.
JESSICA: Yeah, all right so the next thing is gardens.
KIM: Yeah, and composting leads us right into that, because compost is great to put on your garden. So, you can do this through raised beds in your backyard. If you don't have a big backyard, you can do container gardening that makes it a lot more accessible and easy if you don't have that space.
JESSICA: And is container gardening just having like a small container with some plants in it?
KIM: Yes, you can just do a pot with one tomato plant if you love tomatoes. So, grow things that you know you're going to eat, so you're using less packaging, because you're not getting all that stuff at the grocery store. So, there's a lot of problems and issues that it's solving. You can do veggies, you can do herbs, and you can get fruit trees if you're in the right environment for that. But one thing that I really love about gardening is that it really connects you back to nature and I think that these things and why we love these things is because that's kind of what's the core of all this stuff. So, it connects you back to nature, gives you a sense of well-being and it really actually boosts your mood, because you are taking care of something that doesn't scream and yell at you like our kids do sometimes. So, it's a really beneficial thing to do.
JESSICA: Yeah, and then the fresh herbs are a great example. We have, just, cinder blocks that we put on end and they have the two holes in them. So it really contains the herb. Yeah, so you grow in there. And I love having fresh herbs around, A, because I like cooking, but B, because I don't like to go to the grocery store and get, you know, two sprigs of parsley in those plastic containers. I only need this much. So, 80% of it I don't use and then it's in a plastic container that I have to throw away. Alright, so, you mentioned Compost Now and one of the things I really like about Compost Now is they're a local company. They were at our 10-year anniversary party that we recently had and, you know, that's a big thing that our listeners can do to go green, too, is to buy local, buy from, you know, vendors in your community.
KIM: Yeah, support those local businesses in your local ecosystem. So, you're boosting your neighbors and you're buying from them. So, you know, think about it as really supporting the economy that surrounds you. There’s nothing wrong with that. I was also going to mention, CSA's are a really great way to invest in your local economy, because you're investing in farmers.
JESSICA: And CSA being crop share agreement?
KIM: Yeah, so, or community supported agriculture. It’s another acronym for it. But this is basically getting fruits and veggies dropped off at your doorstep. So, again, when we were in our house, we did this, so it's on pause right now. But I loved it. Because we got fresh stuff right to our door. Ours actually even included local meats. So it's a great way to reduce packaging, reduce transit and support your local economy.
JESSICA: So, I think a lot of the things that we've talked about are things that you can do at home. We mentioned that some are things that you can do at work. But we didn't address some of the more obvious ones that are ways that you can personally connect to nature. We did a podcast on biophilic design and how bringing nature into your space makes you happier, makes you healthier. I actually read this article one time, last February, about how bringing plants into your home makes you happier and it was specifically about women, and I kind of jokingly forwarded it to my husband and for Valentine's Day I got all these plants. He just kept coming inside. I don’t know if I should have been offended or not. But something like that, bringing those plants inside, things like opening a window just to get a breeze or sitting near a window to get delighting. The renovation we just did in our office in that kitchenette area where we used that Koskisen plywood which has all that beautiful color, but the natural wood grain that you can see behind it. Wood grains and woods like the reSAWN Timber or the Wonderwall, all of that stuff that evokes nature, it makes you happier, it makes you healthier. Not going green in the sense that you're actively doing something, but those are ways to make a space connect a person to nature and make them happier and healthier and you can do that in your own home.
KIM: Absolutely, yeah.
JESSICA: Another way that you can do it in home and at work- colors and textures. Where you've got people that are actually engaging with the space and it keeps you more alert and it keeps you happier. So, things like acoustics and sound control are really important aspects of that that are really going to help you work more efficiently, work better and be happier, healthier.
KIM: So, some of the things that I like to do at the office to be a little bit more sustainable are bringing my lunch. So, bringing in leftovers, saving on packaging, saving that food from going in the trash, eventually, and when you bring leftovers, you're using real silverware instead of the packaged stuff that you're going to get...
JESSICA: Sandy brought in the sandwich yesterday.
KIM: She brought in her lunch?
JESSICA: She brought in her lunch yesterday. It was a first.
KIM: Yay Sandy! That's great, making changes. If you do order lunch make sure that you ask that you don't get any disposables and that can even go for your sauce packs. If you have a bottle any ketchup in the refrigerator, just say no. So, having those condiments on hand at the office is really important. Don’t print if you don't need to. Unplug any electronics that you don't need plugged in when you leave, because that's, you know, sucking power from the outlet when it's plugged in.
JESSICA: I've read some studies on that where there's this whole camp that says that it's not, that it is, and they both tested it and it's really about a lot of people have tested it on phone chargers. But the reality is if there's an appliance that you can unplug, you should unplug it, because it usually does have some amount of passive power.
KIM: Yeah, yeah, and then when you can, we live in a nice environment here in North Carolina where we have spring and fall that are really nice seasons where you can actually open the windows and enjoy the nice weather outside. So, do that and don't use your heating and air if you don't have to. So, those are kind of from a personal perspective. We mentioned some of the things that you can do from a business perspective, like you mentioned the recycling.
JESSICA: Yeah, I mean offer recycling at your business. I mean, I go to this boxing gym and they don't have a recycling bin. Every day I walk by, “hey, Max, how's that recycling bin coming?” You know, and I could see, he said, “you're the fifth person that's asked me today.” Which is great. I want to be the tenth person that asked him today and I want there to be recycling bin there. So I think it's your own business. But it's also the businesses that you interact with, making them get better.
KIM: Absolutely, and I think that's a really good point to make to our listeners. If there's something you think about that you could suggest to a business or wherever you live, don't be afraid to do that.
JESSICA: No, go for it. Sebastian does it all the time. He’ll walk up to someone at a restaurant and say, “why are you drinking out of that straw?” But you're right, that's the thing. It’s as much as you do for yourself, but as much as you can do, yourself, for others as well.
KIM: Yeah, you can really make some lasting change there. So, I think as people start to get more comfortable with you know making some small steps themselves, then they'll be more comfortable and more advocate a little bit more for, you know, others to do the same.
JESSICA: And we wouldn't be doing our job as CaraGreen stewards if we didn't say that some of the best green choices you can make are in choosing materials that are sustainable. So, if you are redoing your kitchen, use a PaperStone countertop made out of recycled paper or IceStone made out of recycled glass. If you're designing a school and you want healthy interiors, use Lapitec, which is so healthy, it kills bacteria and is anti-graffiti and it can actually help clean the air. If you're renovating your home, put Havelock insulation in the walls. Wool insulation permanently sequesters formaldehyde, the amino acids permanently trap formaldehyde and takes it out of the air, so it's like having an active air filter in your walls.
KIM: Yeah, I'm really excited to get some of that for my house, actually. So, it's fun to be able to work for a company, and actually, I thought about this when you mentioned it before. I think a lot of our employees at CaraGreen are attracted to CaraGreen because of the type of business that it is. So, I think, inherently we have a lot of people that have that mindset already. So, we kind of get each other.
JESSICA: Well Sandy's looking at Lapitec for her home. She just put carpet in her house. I mean talk about a conflict.
KIM: Very true, very true. But I'm excited to incorporate some of these into our new build too. It’s going to be fun.
JESSICA: That's great. I'm excited for our listeners to start incorporating some of these ways to go green into their everyday lives. So, this is Kim and Jessica, that was the top eight thousand ways to go green and thanks for listening to our podcast. It’s available at www.caragreen.com/podcast.
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